History of England Charity

Become a Fan

« Could you do a survey for me? | Main | 190 Good King Richard? »

Thursday, August 04, 2016

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Mart Sarge

Amazing series.
I have learnt so much detail since following this podcast..
Hugely recommend it.

Chris Young

Not sure if you've mentioned it but Richard III is controversial even now. His body was found underneath a car park in Leicestershire, England, and is buried in the nearby cathedral. Those of us from Yorkshire want him transferred to York - as the last surviving Yorkshire King!...

The History of England

Chris, I am indeed very much aware of the car parking situation,and Richard's rising from underneath. However, I have to declare my interest.since I am a son of Leicestershire (though not actually an inhabitant of the fair city), I entirely endorse Richard's final resting place.

My thinking is that York is a treasure trove of wonders. Whereas in Leicester, we have the Daniel Lambert, world's fattest man museum. And the Tigers of course.

So we need all the help we can get to encourage the tourist trade.

Piran

Couldn't York get the body, and Leicester get the car park?

Paul Wakeling

Travesty! Clearly a knave.

Being born and growing up in Leicester and then spending half my life in York I feel I have a special claim to referee this particular dispute. My dad, who was schooled in Leicester just after the war, was taught in history classes that Richard's body had been brought back into Leicester naked and draped over the back of a horse. Crossing the river Soar it had slipped off, into the river, never to be seen again. In my view, that's what they should have done with his bones: put them in a sack and chucked them in the river.

This may not be a popular opinion among your listeners David...

The History of England

Paul, it's the will of the people! And as you say, not popular. However, since I spent a fair proportion of my youth pulling gudgeon out of the river Soar, I also think it would have been good if he'd been dumped there.

Pulling the odd bone out would have been far more interesting that those blessed gudgeon...

Rachel W

It is a matter of what is right, not who needs the most history. In contemporary times, it was common for a fallen noble to be buried by the victors, often inappropriately, and then later, when it was safe to do so, the family of the fallen would then move the body to where was most appropriate (usually where there was a chancery or a family tomb).
In Richard's lifetime he was chief mourner as they moved his father and older brother from Pomfret (now Pontefract) to the collegiate church of Fotheringhay and where Richard's mother was later interred too.
Richard also had Henry VI moved to St. George's Chapel in 1484.

Leicester was a place where Richard III's body was disrespected and then buried in a grave too small. It was close to where he had been killed and his legal crown taken from him. It is where he had been betrayed. Even if we don't know exactly where he had planned to be buried (although York is the most likely as he had been setting up a chancery there and would have likely moved both his son's and wife' body to the same location (Queen Anne is in Westminster), we definitely know that Leicester would have been the last place he would have wished to be, and had it been safe to do so, family would have moved him in the decades after he had been buried there).

If you really think that someone should be interred somewhere just because it adds to the tourist value of a place (and Leicester is certainly milking that side of it) then shouldn't other places that have less history be putting dibs in for the current members of the Royal family? Yes, it is as sick as that.
We need to think of the king and what his wishes would have been. These are the remains of a real person, not a commodity to be grabbed and owned.

The History of England

Rachel, yes you are right to criticise me for being flippant; you are quite right, I am sorry for that.

As far as where is buried is concerned, I realise there are and have been many arguments; all I can say is that from what I saw Leicester made a lot of effort to create an honourable place of burial, and were very proud to be able to do so.

Ruth

The "York" protagonists are starting to sound like the "Remainers" in Brexit. Stop whinging and accept the majority vote (even if, in this instance, the enfranchised population was skewed). They ain't gonna dig him up !

AH

Have to disagree with your assessment that Leicester made a lot of effort to create an honourable place of burial. They did, however, expend a great deal of effort in ensuring that their plans for re-ordering their cathedral (in the works since 2008, but on hold for lack of funds) were paid for using the excuse of paying for King Richard's reinterment.

maryjane

amazing.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)